{"id":1698,"date":"2016-06-18T15:03:28","date_gmt":"2016-06-18T14:03:28","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/outters.fr\/?page_id=1698"},"modified":"2025-07-15T17:03:57","modified_gmt":"2025-07-15T16:03:57","slug":"les-premieres-decouvertes","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/www.outters.fr\/?page_id=1698","title":{"rendered":"Les premi\u00e8res d\u00e9couvertes"},"content":{"rendered":"

<\/div>\n
\n

L’espoir revient<\/h1>\n<\/div>
<\/blockquote>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>
<\/div><\/div>
<\/div>

PREAMBULE<\/h1>\n

La photographie avec des lunettes ayant un rapport F\/D tr\u00e8s ouverte et une focale tr\u00e8s petite et un capteur CCD de grande taille permet de photographier de larges champs d’\u00e9toiles.<\/p>\n

Si en plus vous utilisez des filtres \u00e0 bande \u00e9troite et notamment les filtres SII et OIII avec les couleurs respectives en rouge et bleu, alors vous risquez bien de tomber sur quelques petites \u00ab\u00a0taches\u00a0\u00bb bizarres qui sont \u00e0 v\u00e9rifier dans les catalogues d’objets.<\/p>\n

La premi\u00e8re chose \u00e0 faire est de v\u00e9rifier si ce que vous voyez est vraiment quelque chose de r\u00e9el ou alors un reflet ou un artefact d\u00fb au traitement.<\/p>\n

La deuxi\u00e8me chose \u00e0 faire est de v\u00e9rifier si l’objet visible est r\u00e9pertori\u00e9 dans un quelconque catalogue de n\u00e9buleuses et l\u00e0 vous mettez le doigt dans l’engrenage de la qu\u00eate du tr\u00e9sor.<\/p>\n

Des catalogues, il en existe des quantit\u00e9s \u00e9normes et la recherche n’est pas simple.<\/p>\n

voici la routine \u00e0 adopter\u00a0<\/em>:<\/p>\n

\n

1) faites d\u00e9j\u00e0 une recherche sur votre logiciel de carte du ciel (carte du ciel, Sky6 pro, Skymap ect…) et m\u00eame si vous ne trouvez rien, notez les coordonn\u00e9es exactes du centre de l’objet visible. Prenez de pr\u00e9f\u00e9rence les coordonn\u00e9es au format J2000, exemple : 04 07 21.62 +51 24 24.2 J2000<\/p>\n

2) ensuite cherchez les catalogues grace au site web http:\/\/simbad.u-strasbg.fr\/simbad\/ soit avec Simbad ouViZier, puis ensuite avec l’applet Aladin qui permet de positionner plusieurs catalogues sur votre image d’origine.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

<\/a>L’ AVENTURE COMMENCE<\/h1>\n

Septembre 2007, je pointe la lunette FSQ106 sur la n\u00e9buleuse NGC1499 et je shoote des images pendant plusieurs nuits d’affil\u00e9es.<\/p>\n

La cam\u00e9ra CCD est une Finger Lakes IMG6303e avec quelques petits probl\u00e8mes de bandes verticales qui apparaissent sur les images brutes.<\/p>\n

Je ne sais pas ce qui c’est pass\u00e9 mais les images se sont faites oubli\u00e9es pendant presque 2 ans puisque un dimanche matin de juillet 2009, avec des copains je d\u00e9cide de leurs montrer des images brutes d’une CCD et je tombe sur le dossier des images oubli\u00e9es.<\/p>\n

Les brutes n’ont rien de transcendant mais je d\u00e9cide quelques jours plus tard de traiter les images brutes.<\/p>\n

Les poses unitaires sont d’une dur\u00e9e de 10 minutes en binning 1×1 et sont faites avec 3 filtres narrowband de la marque Astrodon (Ha SII et OIII) d’un largeur de bande de 6 nanom\u00e8tres.<\/p>\n

Lors du traitement final je m’aper\u00e7ois que l’image finale est remplie de bandes verticales de diff\u00e9rentes couleurs du \u00e0 mes probl\u00e8me de capteur (r\u00e9solu depuis) et je remarque \u00e9galement une \u00ab\u00a0tache\u00a0\u00bb bien \u00e9trange et surtout cette tache n’est pas \u00e9gale avec les trois filtres. Sur l’image en hydrog\u00e8ne c’est une tache presque arrondie et tr\u00e8s diffuse, avec le filtre SII (souffre) \u00e7a a plut\u00f4t la forme d’un cercle vide et avec le OIII (Oxyg\u00e8ne III) c’est plut\u00f4t une petite tache centrale et l\u00e9g\u00e8rement d\u00e9centr\u00e9e en bas \u00e0 droite de l’image.<\/p>\n

\"\"\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/a><\/p>\n

Sur l’image zoom\u00e9e, vous pouvez voir au centre la \u00ab\u00a0tache\u00a0\u00bb que nous appellerons \u00ab\u00a0possible candidate PN\u00a0\u00bb et juste au dessus \u00e0 droite vous pouvez voir une autre tache floue qui en fait est une galaxie.<\/p>\n

La premi\u00e8re chose que j’ai fait a \u00e9t\u00e9 de poster un message sur le forum Astrosurf pour savoir si quelqu’un pouvait m’aider \u00e0 confirmer cette PN possible candidate.<\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.astrosurf.com\/ubb\/Forum1\/HTML\/002866.html<\/a><\/p>\n

On m’a donn\u00e9 les coordonn\u00e9es de\u00a0Agn\u00e8s Acker<\/a> qui est sp\u00e9cialis\u00e9e dans l’\u00e9tude des n\u00e9buleuses plan\u00e9taires \u00e0 l’observatoire de Strasbourg, elle est \u00e9galement tr\u00e8s demand\u00e9e par l’IAU (International Astronomical Union) pour confirmer que tel ou tel objet n’est dans aucun catalogue existant.<\/p>\n

Agn\u00e8s a gentiment r\u00e9pondu \u00e0 ma demande et m’a demand\u00e9 les coordonn\u00e9es c\u00e9lestes de la NP possible candidate.<\/p>\n

Voici sa r\u00e9ponse :<\/p>\n

\n

Bonjour,<\/em><\/p>\n

Pour pouvoir vous r\u00e9pondre il faut me donner les coordonn\u00e9es de l’objet.
\nJe pourrai imm\u00e9diatement corr\u00e9ler avec les bases de donn\u00e9es \u00e0 Strasbourg
\nrelatives aux objets \u00ab\u00a0possibles NP\u00a0\u00bb.
\nSi l’objet est connu je vous indiquerai le nom de son d\u00e9couvreur et vous donnerai
\nson adresse mail.
\nSinon je vous garantis le secret et vous aurez la mission de le signaler \u00e0 l’IAU
\n(qui d’ailleurs me demande toujours de bien v\u00e9rifier si l’objet est connu ou non).<\/p>\n

Cordialement
\nAgnes Acker<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Voici ma demande :<\/p>\n

\n

Merci pour votre r\u00e9ponse.
\nVoici les coordonn\u00e9es de l’objet:
\n04 07 21.62 +51 24 24.2 J2000<\/em><\/p>\n

Merci.<\/p>\n

Nicolas outters<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Et sa r\u00e9ponse :<\/p>\n

\n

Bonjour,<\/em><\/p>\n

Selon SIMBAD, cette position est \u00e0 32 arcsec de IRAS 04036+5116 – possible NP
\n< http:\/\/simbad.u-strasbg.fr\/simbad\/sim-id Ident=%40229451&Name=IRAS%2004036%2b5116&submit=submit >
\nCe pourrait \u00eatre le m\u00eame objet car la bo\u00eete d’incertitude de IRAS est justement de environ 30 \u00ab\u00a0.<\/em><\/p>\n

En tous cas, vous pourriez vous associer au groupe de recherche de nouvelles NP dans l’h\u00e9misph\u00e8re<\/em><\/p>\n

nord anim\u00e9 par George Jacoby et qui regroupe plusieurs amateurs (voir l’article que je vous ai envoy\u00e9).<\/em><\/p>\n

Si cela vous int\u00e9resse, dites-le moi.<\/em><\/p>\n

cordialement
\nAgnes Acker<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Je cherche sur Aladin et ne trouve rien d’autre que une galaxie au dessus \u00e0 droite et un IRAS en bas \u00e0 gauche !<\/p>\n

Quelques jours passent et voici un message de Agn\u00e8s :<\/p>\n

\n

Bonjour Nicolas,<\/em><\/p>\n

Si vous le souhaitez, je vous mets en contact avec Georges Jacoby.<\/em><\/p>\n

Votre image est tr\u00e8s belle. Mais o\u00f9 est la NP ?<\/em><\/p>\n

Aucune publication n’a \u00e9t\u00e9 faite de cet objet.
\nMais je ne vois pas de morphologie typique d’une NP.<\/em><\/p>\n

Voici les images que mon \u00e9tudiant de th\u00e8se a pu r\u00e9cup\u00e9rer \u00e0 ma demande
\npour l’objet IRAS :
\nThe colour ones are (left) R=I-band, G=green and B=blue (POSSII)
\n(right) 2MASS RGB = KHJ
\nI also attach a preview of the IPHAS images.
\nPOS II 2MASS<\/em><\/p>\n

cordialement
\nAgnes Acker<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

On distingue bien sur chaque image que il y a bien quelque chose de n\u00e9buleu.<\/p>\n

Quelques jours passent encore et voici un mail de Agn\u00e8s :<\/p>\n

\n

Bonsoir Nicolas,<\/em><\/p>\n

H\u00e9las non, aucune image n’a \u00e9t\u00e9 prise \u00e0 l’OHP, car au T120 la priorit\u00e9 \u00e9tait les ph\u00e9nom\u00e8nes plan\u00e9taires
\n\u00e0 \u00e9tudier avec les stagiaires –\u00a0 et puis le temps s’est couvert.<\/p>\n

Pour l’IAU : il me semble que votre objet sera bien pr\u00e9sent\u00e9 comme nouvelle PN.<\/p>\n

Cordialement
\nAgnes Acker<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Entre temps j’ai contact\u00e9 d’autres personnes comme\u00a0Kent Wallace<\/a>\u00a0qui a contact\u00e9 \u00e0 son tour Dana Patchick (grand d\u00e9couvreur d’objets c\u00e9lestes), voici une copie de ma demande et la r\u00e9ponse de Kent :<\/p>\n

\n

Hello Kent,<\/em><\/p>\n

My name is Nicolas Outters and I leave in France where I do some astrophotographies during my hobbies.<\/p>\n

I know you are a specialist of planetary nebula.<\/p>\n

There are two years ago I did some narrowband images but I had no time to process it.
\nI disvover the subexposure with HII SII and OIII 600 sec subexposure with FSQ106 at F5 and Finger Lakes IMG6303e CCD some days ago and I saw between two classic nebula (a NGC and a Sharpless) a planetary nebula ( I think that !!!).
\nThe object is HII around and OIII at center, a little bit SII. If I try to see on Sky_map.org the nebulae I can see a blue star at center.
\nI have tried to find some catalog number on the sky6 pro, Desktop Universe, Vizier, Aladin,…. but I don’t find anything only a deep star.<\/p>\n

Could you help me to find more informations or if it is undesignated nebulae or other object to ask to the INTERNATIONAL ASTRONOMICAL UNION if there is a catalog number of this object ?<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Sa r\u00e9ponse :<\/p>\n

\n

Hi Nicolas,<\/em><\/p>\n

What is the position of your undesignated PN candidate?\u00a0 Have you tried SIMBAD or NED to see if it has been catalogued before?\u00a0 Have you tried SuperCOSMOS or SkyView to see if it shows up on any of those images? SkyView has some false color options which will sometimes show very faint nebulosity.<\/p>\n

If I have a (2000) position and a size, I can run your PN candidate by a member of the Deep Sky Hunters group.\u00a0 Also I can send it to Brian Skiff for his opinion.<\/p>\n

Clear skies!<\/p>\n

Kent<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Sa r\u00e9ponse une fois lui avoir donn\u00e9 les coordonn\u00e9es :<\/p>\n

\n

Hi Nicolas,<\/em><\/p>\n

I checked SIMBAD and NED and your PN candidate is in neither.\u00a0 I was unable to see your PN candidate in the images you sent me but it does show up fairly well on the SkyView stern special POSS II red image.\u00a0 It appears your PN candidate has an enhanced western side and a size of about 75″x55″.\u00a0 Your coordinates center on a star which is quite blue and might be a central star.\u00a0 The morphology is a bit strange with respect to the blue star.<\/p>\n

I am going to send your PN candidate to Dana Patchick who has found several PNe.\u00a0 He may be able to do a better analysis on it.<\/p>\n

Clear skies!<\/p>\n

Kent<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Kent a ensuite envoy\u00e9 un mail \u00e0 Dana patchick<\/p>\n

\n

Hi Dana,<\/em><\/p>\n

I haven’t got around to the e-mail you sent me yesterday yet but I will.<\/p>\n

Nicolas Outters from France sent me a possible PN candidate that he found. It is at (2000) 04 07 21.6 +51 24 24 and has a size of about 75″x55″. It shows up on the SkyView stern special POSS II red image. The position above is for a blue star that may be the central star. This PN candidate has an enhanced western edge and the blue star is not central to the nebula but off toward the western edge. I couldnt find anything in SIMBAD or NED. There is a brighter nebula about 60″ to the WNW which is the galaxy LEDA 168466 according to NED.<\/p>\n

I was wondering if you might give this PN candidate a look and see what you thought.<\/p>\n

Thanks,<\/p>\n

Kent<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Qui a r\u00e9pondu ceci :<\/p>\n

\n

Hi Kent,<\/em><\/p>\n

This is exciting what your friend Nicolas has found. It looks quite legitimate to me as a planetary nebula candidate. My own Pa 3 has the ‘offset’ central star, and there are other examples, of course, with such C.S.’s, so I go along with that blue object as the possible candidate for this nebula.<\/p>\n

My regret is that the location of this object is in very low galactic territory ( -0.464 degrees ) – which means it has been swooped up much earlier by the IPHAS team – like Jurasevich’s Cygnus ‘Bubble’. No doubt it is in their electronic list (of which we will all see soon enough as their paper is expected out soon – probably just as we see Dr. Jacoby’s).<\/p>\n

This still is a nice independent find. I’ll send word about it to Matthias and see if he will confirm our suspicions of all of the above.<\/p>\n

I note that the nebula is bright enough to show faintly on the old POSS 1 blue exposures from the early 1950’s, and the central star candidate also comes through nicely.<\/p>\n

I just checked Vizier for anything there, and came up with a NVSS source and IRAS point source listing that matches only for the nearby LEDA galaxy. So far as I can tell, there isn’t anything for this PN candidate – yet.<\/p>\n

All best,
\nDana<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Les mails avec Kent s’arretent ici et Dana prend le relais avec cette r\u00e9ponse quelques jours plus tard.<\/p>\n

\n

Allow me to recommend that you make your searches at least beyond +\/- 5 degrees galactic latitude in hopes of discovering something with the narrowband equipment. IPHAS has closed that area off to us, north of the equator, and it is worse still for areas south of the equator. The MASH survey has effectively taken care of anything within +\/- 10 degrees of galactic latitude with their surveys.<\/em><\/p>\n

Don’t forget that we Deepskyhunters have also done a fair job of searching the regions north of the equator out to around 10 degrees or better – but at least this has been done by scanning DSS plates, and so your narrowband techniques might catch something we overlooked.<\/p>\n

But Matthias was very thorough : – )<\/p>\n

He employed a technique that superimposed the red, blue and IR plates to make a RGB image. This enabled him to pick up some very tiny spots that would’ve resembled stars to me.<\/p>\n

All best from Petaluma, California
\n-Dana<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Je n’aurais plus de nouvelles de Dana \u00e0 partir de cette date.<\/p>\n

<\/a>UNE PERIODE DE DOUTES<\/h1>\n

Les jours passent et je me dis que peut \u00eatre personne ne s’interresse \u00e0 cette histoire ! Quelques potes me contactent par t\u00e9l\u00e9phone et me demandent des news de NP…. l’int\u00e9ret est relanc\u00e9, je me relance dans les recherches de la bonne personne qui pourra prendre en consid\u00e9ration ma demande de fa\u00e7on officielle.<\/p>\n

Je tente des recherches sur le site de mac neil\u00a0http:\/\/spacsun.rice.edu\/~has\/jay_mcneil.htm<\/a>\u00a0et contacte\u00a0Bo Reipurth<\/strong>\u00a0afin de connaitre un peu plus qui voudrait bien s’occuper de ma demande au sein de l’IAU.<\/p>\n

Voici sa r\u00e9ponse :<\/p>\n

\n

Dear Nicolas Outters<\/em><\/p>\n

would be glad to help, but this is a subject completely outside my specialty.
\nYou must try to find somebody who is an expert on planetary nebulae.<\/p>\n

best regards<\/p>\n

Bo Reipurth<\/p>\n

PS: the IAU is holding its general assembly this week in Rio de Janeiro, so I don’t expect that
\nyou will hear from them at the moment.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Je lis \u00e9galement la page web suivante tr\u00e8s instructive :\u00a0http:\/\/www.lostvalleyobservatory.com\/page29crescentbubblenb\/<\/a>\u00a0sur la d\u00e9couverte de\u00a0Dave Jurasevich<\/a>\u00a0et sa\u00a0PN G75.5+1.7.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Je me suis m\u00eame permis de lui envoyer un mail mais sans r\u00e9ponse de sa part….dommage, car sa\u00a0page web<\/a>\u00a0est \u00e9loquente<\/p>\n

dont voici un extrait :<\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0I\u2019ve learned a few things in the nearly one year between my filing of an initial report with the IAU and the release of Bulletin No. 1876. Perhaps the most important thing gleaned from the experience was that the IAU\/CBAT is really geared more towards the reporting of \u201ctransient\u201d objects such as comets and supernovae. In its own words,<\/em><\/p>\n

\n
\n

\u00ab\u00a0The CBAT is the official worldwide clearinghouse for new discoveries of comets, solar-system satellites, novae, supernovae, and other transient astronomical events. It aims to serve the astronomical community in the spirit of the mandate of the Smithsonian Institution: to aid in the increase and diffusion of knowledge; as such, together with its sister projects (the Minor Planet Center and the International Comet Quarterly), the CBAT serves to lead the SAO in this mandate in terms of public visibility.\u00a0\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n

The IAU is really not equipped to handle discoveries of a \u201cnon-transient\u201d nature such as planetary nebulae. Thanks to the patient understanding and guidance of Dr. Daniel Green of the IAU however, I was nevertheless guided through the process of reporting and defending my discovery claim. I look upon this as a personal favor by Dr. Green and am forever indebted to him for his guidance over that long year. In hindsight, I now recognize that the more direct path to pursue in staking a claim of discovery is to publish the findings in a professional journal as soon as possible. That can be a daunting task for an amateur astronomer not familiar with or connected to the professional community; however it is the preferred method.\u00a0\u00bb<\/em><\/p>\n


\n<\/em>Je continue mes recherches et lance Daniel Green qui fait partie de pas mal de commissions \u00e0 l’IAU et s’est personnellement occup\u00e9 de la d\u00e9couverte de la bulle pr\u00e8s de la n\u00e9buleuse du croissant dans la constellation du Cygne, voici sa r\u00e9ponse :<\/p>\n

\n
We don't normally deal with planetary nebulae...  \r\nYou should contact  Dr. Agnes Acker , \r\nwho handles the official  designations list of planetary nebulae...    \r\n Before you contact her, you should have done the following research, \r\n and provide the results of your research:    (1) search as many \r\nonline images of the area as possible, at all   wavelengths, \r\nproviding dates, bandpasses, and limiting magnitudes,  \r\n and say whether your new suspect is present on any available images\r\n    (2) search all planetary nebulae catalogues, and do a thorough\r\n  search of the relevant catalogues and published papers in the   \r\nliterature, to see if the object has already been discussed    \r\n\r\n\r\nKind regards Dan Green<\/em><\/pre>\n
<\/a>L’ESPOIR REVIENT<\/h1>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Sur ce, je recontacte Agn\u00e8s Acker qui me r\u00e9pond par :<\/p>\n
\n
D’accord, envoyez-moi \u00e0 nouveau tous les param\u00e8tres
\n(coordonn\u00e9es, magnitude, dimensions, etc), et on va lui
\ndonner une d\u00e9nomination galactique et un nom de d\u00e9couvreur
\n(avec vos initiales)
\ncordialement
\nAgnes Acker<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Enfin, je trouve chaussure \u00e0 mon pied et retour positif \u00e0 la case d\u00e9part…<\/p>\n
Apr\u00e8s quelques jours voici sa r\u00e9ponse suite \u00e0 ma demande officielle :<\/p>\n
\n
Votre objet est donc consid\u00e9r\u00e9 comme\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n
\u00ab\u00a0new possible planetary nebula\u00a0\u00bb<\/em><\/p>\n
with the galactic designation 151.0-00.4.<\/em><\/p>\n
F\u00e9licitations !
\nVous pouvez donc constituer la fiche d’identit\u00e9<\/em><\/p>\n
de l’objet : coordonn\u00e9es, dimensions, carte de champ<\/em><\/p>\n
et nous l\u2019inclurons\u00a0dans la base de NP au Centre de<\/em><\/p>\n
donn\u00e9es<\/i><\/p>\n
\u00a0astronomiques de Strasbourg.
\n<\/em><\/p>\n
Ce sera une NP confirm\u00e9e si son spectre montre les<\/em><\/p>\n
bonnes caract\u00e9ristiques : raies [OIII] > Hbeta, raies<\/em><\/p>\n
[NII] de part et d’autre de Halfa, et \u00e9toile centrale bleue.
\n<\/em><\/p>\n
cordialement<\/em><\/p>\n
Agnes Acker<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-1698","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.outters.fr\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1698","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.outters.fr\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.outters.fr\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.outters.fr\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.outters.fr\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1698"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/www.outters.fr\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1698\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":9439,"href":"https:\/\/www.outters.fr\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1698\/revisions\/9439"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.outters.fr\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1698"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}